Brian Curee: 0:00

Well, hey, welcome back to the Mindful Bytes podcast. I'm excited about our discussion today. Today, we're going to talk about the Metaverse it's a Metaverse check-in but we're also going to talk about concerns, concerns, not only with the Metaverse, but also with digital platforms across the board. Let's go ahead and introduce the crew. So we have today. We have Olivia. Olivia, introduce yourself. You are the social media queen, or something like that, aren't you? I can't remember.

Olivia Yetman: 0:30

Millennial.

Brian Curee: 0:31

Millennial. Okay yeah.

Olivia Yetman: 0:33

Yeah, I'm Olivia, the social media obsessed millennial.

Brian Curee: 0:39

Obsessed. I love that Obsessed.

Ashton Curee: 0:41

Yeah, I'm Ashton. You're a Gen Z gadget fanatic.

Brian Curee: 0:46

Fanatic, and I am Brian, your Gen X business leader, that's taking a different look of how to use these digital platforms. Today, guys, each one of us here that's in this podcast episode has been in the Metaverse. We've been in there for oh my gosh, over three years, so there's a lot of stuff we've learned and I thought, hey, this is a good time to talk and have a check-in, a Metaverse check-in and if you're already tuning out sorry, you're going to miss some good conversations, but if you're still in there, hang in there, because there are some concerns that I think it's important for us to look at and discuss. But it's not just Metaverse concerns. One of the things that I've been learning recently is you know, we talk a lot about the good and the bad of different digital technologies strategies, the way we use them, but I've realized that a lot of these pros can be a double-edged sword. Double-edged sword, I guess that's the way you say it correctly, because a pro can also be a con. Is that confusing when I say that? No, but a pro can be a con, and that's something that I want to talk about. So you know, just like with Mindful Bites, the whole podcast here is about being more mindful and understanding how these technologies and platforms can have those good and bad effects in our life. So if we want to hear your guys' thoughts too, so if you're tuned in, make sure you check this right down there in our show notes. There's a way that you can text us. Just click that link and you can text us your thoughts, questions and you might hear us talking about it on the next episode. So all right with that.

Brian Curee: 2:21

I'm excited to talk about the Metaverse. We've been in there for three years. As I said earlier, if you've never been in the Metaverse, it's basically the easiest way to explain it is. It's like an immersive experience. You imagine, putting on a headset, you step into a virtual world or mixed reality where things are coming. These virtual objects and items are coming into your real life space and you can interact with them. So very immersive and the connectivity. Olivia, when we first stepped in the Metaverse, do you remember that, that moment, like three years ago? What was it like? What was your initial thoughts?

Olivia Yetman: 2:58

Yeah. So yeah, even though it's three years ago, I can still remember it so vividly because it was so different. But it just was. It felt like connection, like never before, Right, Like we weren't you and I weren't in the same room. We had met some people, but it felt like we were in the exact same room actually, as we would be like face to face in real life.

Brian Curee: 3:28

So yeah, and and Ashton. How about you, Ashton? How long have you been in the Metaverse now?

Ashton Curee: 3:35

I think it's been about two and a half years.

Brian Curee: 3:37

I came in just after you, like a few months after you yep, and I think that I think that is what was the thing that stood out the most to you, because I mean, you're a gadget guy, you're into these digital technologies of what, and I know you've grown you haven't grown up in social media, though you've been in the era of social media. A lot of people, these Gen Zs. That's the world they live in. Now I know for you, Ashton, you didn't get into social media and stuff until you were 18 because we knew as parents, understanding the dangers of how that can have on your mental health and stuff, and especially as a child, the way you think we wanted to make sure we protected you from that until you got to an older age and you understood the dangers and the benefits as well of stepping into those. So when you, what was your first experience? Like in the Metaverse, when you put on that virtual reality headset?

Ashton Curee: 4:37

immediately. I thought it was super interesting because of how you can create worlds in there. You can make your own entire environment for nothing and from nothing. I've always enjoyed building things, but normally if you're working with wood you've got to go buy wood, and wood is not cheap. And so all of a sudden you have this headset you can put on, and once you have the headset, there's nothing else you're buying. You're not buying storage, you're not buying anything else for it. You can build whatever you want, and then people come out and check whatever you built. If you build a social space, people are going to go there and hang out. If you build a game, people are going to go and play the game. So that was immediately. What was super interesting to me was the community that had been built in there and the possibilities of what you could build in there.

Brian Curee: 5:36

Yeah, I think that the community I think has been a huge, as we continued for, you know, for three years now, has continued to kind of blow me away, like the connections that we're making in there, just as you shared, Olivia, when we first stepped in there. The presence, that immersive presence, really felt like the people were in the same room with you. You know you can give each other a high five. Back then, Olivia, if you remember, we didn't have legs. Yeah, now we got legs and we're all running around like look at my legs, but it's really grown.

Brian Curee: 6:07

That technology has actually grown pretty quickly over the last three years. We've seen it really evolve. Now, with that, the platform that we use is MetaHorizon. That's the platform that we use, but that's not the only Metaverse app out there. There's several different platforms. So for those of you tuning in, you're like, well, I don't understand, is the Metaverse meta? It's not. So let's go ahead and clear that up. Metaverse is not meta. He's just very smart when it comes to his branding and what he did, why he changed that name. Very smart, Zuckerberg. Very smart. But it's not just meta.

Brian Curee: 6:39

Think of the Metaverse as like the internet. That's the best way I've been able to explain it. Think of it as the internet. No single individual owns it, but we can all build websites and our businesses and we have our websites on there where we can connect with people from all around the world. It's the same thing with the Metaverse. The Metaverse isn't owned by anybody. It's a space that you can go and build. You can build virtual worlds. You can create your own apps that people can connect with and you own that app, unless you're using a leased property like Verizon Worlds, which is more of a social app, but think of those apps and your virtual worlds as, like the new websites, you're stepping into it. You can actually meet customers, leads right in these virtual immersive experiences. So a lot of cool things. We've written articles about about it so you can go check them out. I'll make sure I'll put some links in the show notes if you want to check that out.

Brian Curee: 7:32

But what I want to talk about today is the pros and cons. Uh, one of the things Olivia and I know Ashton, we just talked about this at a. We host a in the Metaverse, at the Killer Bee Studios, which is our virtual world. We host once a month we host a meetup called Mission XR Meetup, and what that is about is that's with a company that we help write and do research on XR technologies, which is XR is basically an umbrella for everything like mixed reality, virtual reality, augmented reality XR stands for extended reality, so it's just an umbrella where everything falls underneath that, because there's new ones coming out all the time. So we have this meetup once a month to kind of discuss our experiences, learn from that, help each other, share what we're doing in hopes to use this technology for missions to help people in their life.

Brian Curee: 8:28

So with that, with our last meetup, we had an incident, I guess, that we wanted to talk about and I think it's important for us to talk about today, because, just as these technologies have pros and this is where I think the pros and cons like sometimes your pro can be a con as well we know how the pro of XR technology, these immersive experiences, are creating an atmosphere that we can connect in a way that has never been possible with digital before. As you said, Olivia, you really feel like you're there, like you really feel like you're hanging out with people, which is creating a different type of connection. Think about, like, even with social media, social media creates a connection, but, as you know, Olivia, how would you compare the connection versus on XR or VR, versus social social media? How would you compare the difference?

Olivia Yetman: 9:28

so with um, like the Metaverse, right, I think it is way more comparative to real life, where, um, right away you can start talking to someone and develop a connection. Where with social media it takes a little bit to, number one, capture someone's attention with the algorithm, right, and then some people aren't even taking it to the next step, which is, you know, asking questions, getting to know the people, so they're not even actually connecting, they're just projecting a message. So that's where I feel like it's different with the Metaverse, because it's like are you just going in the Metaverse? And if Brian, for example, comes up to me and he was like hey, Olivia, a majority of the people aren't just going to stand there and say nothing, right, you're actually going to have conversations where on social media, a business could post something and say nothing to you. So, yeah, so.

Brian Curee: 10:34

Yeah, and it's pretty cool too, cause, like I was just thinking when you were saying that, you know, I don't know, do you ever go like, do you ever have like meetups as much on social media Like, hey, hey, we're gonna go meet up? Like do you connect with your friends and say we're gonna meet up? That happens on in the Metaverse every day, uh, and, but it's because of that technology. So what I wanted to share, you know, the last meet meeting we just had in there was talking about an unfortunate situation where, um, someone had someone's older sibling committed suicide and we had connected to this with this person in there. So we had a whole topic discussion about that, that whole situation where someone has committed suicide and understand that these are real people behind these avatars and what are some signs we should look for and understand. So, because we have this connection, this opportunity, that people are very vulnerable and open up, so we want to not take things for granted but look at these as the opportunities they are and help people that might be facing that. So that got us talking about pros and cons.

Brian Curee: 11:42

So, knowing that one of the pros of this technology is the connection People are making legit friendships and they're meeting people from around the world. Some of them are actually meeting in person. Again, if there's any kids listening to this, if you're on those platforms, do not meet with anybody from the Metaverse in person. That is dangerous, but dangerous. But some of the adults we know that's been going to virtual churches. They've built a whole community. They have connected at public events like the Ark Encounter and stuff like that from people around the world. We've met a couple that was the pastor of the church actually here where we live in Central Florida, but we've spent years connecting with them and again, we're adults so we can kind of kind of make that judgment.

Brian Curee: 12:29

But with that, with that pro of the connection that it brings, another thing that we have to look at is, uh, I was talking to somebody Olivia and Ashton after that meeting and they said when I think of the Metaverse she was sharing, that she's been speaking, I guess, to a class or something like that that she works with about the Metaverse and she's like I'm talking about the pros and cons but I really can't find many cons which I get it. It's hard to do that unless you really look at how a pro might be a con. So connection like we've never expected it or experienced in digital can also be a con because, again, this is a lease property that we're on. So if that is taken away, that pro of man I've like really creating meaningful connections. I'm connecting with people from around the world.

Brian Curee: 13:19

I feel like we're really close friends and then all of a sudden somebody cuts that off that you don't have control over. That causes a withdrawal that nobody has really had to ever think about as deeply, because none of the platforms that we have really connect that deeply. It's like losing a loved one. I don't know if, Olivia, did you ever hear about Allspace? Did?

Olivia Yetman: 13:46

you hear about Altspace? Yeah, I heard of it yeah, and actually we were talking a lot about it when we were first in the Metaverse.

Brian Curee: 13:53

Yes, so did you. So Altspace was bought by Microsoft and as soon as Microsoft bought it, they closed it down. They shut it down. Yeah, I don't know the reasons why, but nobody thought of how it was going to affect those people that had built these communities. You know, you had churches, you had huge communities that had been built, people had these friends and all of a sudden they just lost connection from everybody overnight. And I know I have a friend in there that is a certified life behavioral coach and he said he was doing therapy sessions for over two years with people. And there's still people that still feel this depression of losing connections with these people that they met with in Metaverse.

Brian Curee: 14:37

So it's like, even though that connection is a pro, it's also a con, and I think it's something that I wanted to talk about, because I think it's important, with any digital technology that we're using, that we really sit down and reflect on the pros and the cons, the good and the bad, and always be kind of in a mindset of that pro might be a con, that good might be a bad. How can it transition it? How is it going to affect people? So, for instance, I'm going to bring in this conversation. I want to open it up for us to talk about.

Brian Curee: 15:11

But even look at the social dilemma Like you guys have you both you watched the documentary the social dilemma on Netflix. So we know about social media, like there's pros and cons of that. So I would love to just kind of stop there for a second, see if you guys have anything you guys want to share and talk about with this, this pro and con kind of mentality, before we go further um, I mean, you know there, sometimes, when you are starting something new which I would still consider, um, you know the Metaverse like really new, even though you know it's been around for a while.

Olivia Yetman: 15:54

Um, sometimes you know, like, when you get into something like that, you have what they call like the honeymoon phase, or like you're wearing like rose colored glasses, where you just see everything because it's so new and exciting and all of those things. It's just like everything is amazing and blah, blah, blah. Well, then you can think about it as like a marriage, right After you've been with someone for a while, things I mean not to say they're not good, but you know, you might have some more like arguments or there might be like things that kind of start annoying you or whatever it may be. So I think that sometimes people get stuck though in the honeymoon phase and they can't move past it. So it's like this is amazing and then things go, they're not as amazing or something shifts, but all they're trying to do is to get back to that honeymoon phase, if that makes sense so they're basically like yeah, so that's kind of my thoughts on it.

Olivia Yetman: 17:08

It's like so exciting, everything's just like I'm connecting with all of these people, um, and it's kind of hard to see the negatives, and there are a lot of positives. But and also, you know, too much of a good thing isn't always a good thing.

Brian Curee: 17:28

That is a good point. Yeah that's a very good point.

Ashton Curee: 17:32

Yeah, I think it's interesting because we've never seen a social I guess you could say platform, social, I guess you could say platform. We've never seen anything social like this, as powerful as what this is where it's actually able to. It basically tricks the human brain into thinking that you're looking at a real person's face and we've really noticed that we're like, even when you're just having conversations, especially if you have a meta pro where it has facial tracking, it feels like you're talking straight to a person and so it almost can emulate a social experience where you don't have to go out into the real world and actually talk to people. You can just talk to people in this headset, the real world, and actually talk to people. You can just talk to people in this headset.

Ashton Curee: 18:26

And I think I don't think the danger is even just in the Metaverse, but as more and more new social platforms develop where we're getting closer and closer to that, uh, to emulating that. I think it's just like a general danger now of it wasn't ever meant to replace what it's doing, but it's reaching a point to where, if people are on there enough and they're sacrificing time to go spend time with their family, that it actually could be a real danger. Like you were saying, it's so good, it's such a pro that it becomes a con.

Brian Curee: 19:01

I think that that's a really good point and from what both of you were sharing there, you know, it kind of makes a touch on a couple of things. That came to my mind as we're processing and discussing this was, you know, Olivia, as you were talking about you know, kind of being that honeymoon stage and there comes a time, like after you've been there for a while, that kind of starts dying off and you start seeing the bad things and, you know, not everything's great and those things are going to grow on any platforms that we're on new platforms that we're testing out. One of the things that I remember when we first got in there, I was like the possibilities are limitless, like there's you know's so many, there's no limit. But then I had to correct myself because I'm like no, wait a minute, there are limits. We're just now learning what those limits are.

Olivia Yetman: 19:50

And it's the same thing here.

Brian Curee: 19:51

We're still learning, even with social media. Like Ashton, you said it wasn't created. It was created to bring this connection, but there's also cons of that Same thing with social media. Social media was created, uh, I guess let me rephrase that. You said this technology wasn't created to replace real life, but it can start creating a blurred vision of what is real life and what's virtual life or mixed reality, whatever is that Metaverse with real life? You know some people don't like it when you use IRL because IRL Olivia do you know what Olivia's going to know? Because she's a millennial.

Ashton Curee: 20:29

In real life I was going to say don't even ask.

Brian Curee: 20:32

Yes, see, in real life, some people in the Metaverse don't like it when you use that, when you say well in IRL and they're like this is real okay yeah, it's, you know there's.

Brian Curee: 20:43

There's already a line there that's starting to get blurred like it's really not real life. You don't really know the people like you. You know them at a different level than social media, yeah, but you don't know them if you're hanging out and having dinner with each other and you know and known each other for years, and Ashton before you before you, uh, share your thought. It kind of made me think about the same thing of social media. Social media when it was first created, the even technology across the board, cell phones, everything. It was created to bring us closer together, but you know, look at, over the years, it's actually pulled us apart. I don't know, Olivia, would you agree with that? Would you think that there is?

Olivia Yetman: 21:25

Yeah, 100%, and I'll let Ashton share, but I also have some more to add. Go ahead, Ashton.

Ashton Curee: 21:33

I was just going to say it's actually really interesting. This is a similar characteristic across all social platforms of you're only seeing the highlights. Yeah, and that is such a dangerous thing, because I think that's why some people can get addicted to social is because it's all about the highlights. There's hardly ever any bad on there and I like, a few years back, streaming like on Twitch and Kik went viral. So many people were doing it and even now it's still very popular. But, especially just a few years ago, it was huge and I think that's the next closest thing because it felt more raw. But I mean, really, it still highlights, it just feels it gives the illusion. Yeah, it gives the, the illusion like, yeah, it gives the illusion. Exactly, it gives the illusion of being more transparent and raw. And the headsets are just like one more step past live streaming.

Brian Curee: 22:36

Yeah, because you're able to see past a 2d screen or at least what it feels like you can reach out and grab things that's messes with you can really change the whole approach. So yeah, that's a really good point.

Olivia Yetman: 22:47

Asher, very good point yeah, um, I was gonna say too in regards to like the Metaverse and even social platforms, like the thing about it as well is you get to pick and choose, too right. You can just like decide to like take a break or move, you know, just like, oh, I'm not gonna be on Instagram anymore, or whatever it may be, but that doesn't necessarily translate to real life, so you're kind of like losing those skills as well where it's like no, in real life you have to talk through things with people.

Olivia Yetman: 23:41

Like you can't just shut down because that that, when you shut down like that, that depression, right, you can't get out of bed, you can't function, like things like that, so it doesn't. It also kind of numbs our skills to be able to do those things in real life because you can create. You know, like Ashton's talking about all the highlights. Well, you can do that for yourself too, right, you can just present your good side and then if someone has a criticism and whatever I'm not talking to, I'm going to block that. Like it's so easy to block someone that doesn't fit your narrative of conflict resolution in the workplace.

Ashton Curee: 24:48

It's a huge thing right now.

Ashton Curee: 24:49

Yeah, and it's because of multiple reasons, because we're considered the most emotionally aware generation, which I have no clue. If that's true, I haven't found a study to back that. That is something a lot of people say, and because of our communication style is very different because of the same thing, and I wonder. I do really wonder if social has played so much of a role in that. Just like you were saying, it's so easy just to remove yourself from a situation and just to be mad and just to walk away instead of actually trying to resolve that. And I think, especially as my generation is reaching this point of becoming parents, I think we're going to see a lot more of that. And even if you look at the dating world now, it's the same exact thing People break up because of the tiniest little things.

Ashton Curee: 25:44

And it's that same exact thing of we can't like so much of my generation can't resolve conflict. There's exceptions, but if you look at the whole, the average, it does seem that way.

Brian Curee: 25:59

it does seem that way, yeah, and I think that has a lot to do with what you know. The generations are growing up within, you know. So growing up in these platforms, where there really wasn't that, you didn't, you didn't have the like. I guess the normal routine wasn't to go outside and play in the woods and stuff like that. It was. They're on phones. You know you're on phones and you're in those environments, so you're not really we've talked about this before A lot of these younger generations don't really know what a meaningful connection is.

Brian Curee: 26:29

Those connections are all digital, so so I think that plays a role into it a little bit as well. You know, I think that, as everything that we're talking about here, I think it's always important to remember that even on these platforms, their agenda is different. That's what I liked about the Social Dilemma it really focuses on. It talks about. It's a documentary. If you haven't seen it, go check it out on Netflix, but it talks about how social media algorithms are designed to create an addiction and a dependency. I mean, I don't know, Olivia you just talked about. You know you can. A lot of people can choose. I'm not going to be on Instagram anymore. You know I'm going through this process. Right now I'm trying to figure out like, where do I want to really be present on my personal, social and business? And there's a lot of shifts that's changing. Because, Olivia, if you thought about taking a break from TikTok or if you said I'm going to turn TikTok off for a week, would that create any kind of anxiety in you, do you think?

Olivia Yetman: 27:28

Yeah, I mean, we saw it when TikTok went away for a day, I was like, oh my God, it was just a natural thing. I wouldn't even think about it. And I'm like I'm going on my phone clicking on TikTok I'm not even thinking about it, right, like I was like this is, this is bad. I mean, that's the thing, like I can recognize it's bad. But, like you know, I'm thinking about even younger than Ashton, where they don't really know life before that. And so, yeah, it is, it's scary. But yeah, I, I had like, uh, when I watched the social dilemma, there was a crisis that I had of, like I, I'm trying to get more businesses and people on it and I'm like, wow, I felt very weird about that.

Brian Curee: 28:20

I get it. It's like you know once you become aware, then you have to also you become aware of the cons, right? So we know that, like these platforms social media, even you know, you know, when it comes to these Metaverse stuff, all these different technologies we start becoming aware of the cons. So I don't want to ignore the cons. We need to consider that even in how we use them. We need to be more mindful of that, not just for ourselves, but for the people that we're helping to coach the people that we're helping them to how to use it to connect with their audience. I'm sure it has changed some of your coaching approaches, Olivia, with people in the radio industry that we do coaching with, because now you have a responsibility, we are aware. So what do we do with that? And I think that's one of the shifts that you've seen what we've started doing on our website on KB Digital. If you check out kbdigitalcom, you're going to find blogs there, but we're looking at the pros and the cons On a lot of stuff. You're going to find different comparisons of what's the good, what's the bad, so that way you can come up with your own conclusion, your own decision and take ownership of what you decide to do, but you've become more aware, and I feel like that's more important now. That's an important piece of strategy is understanding the pros and cons, and there's going to be other pros and cons that's going to surface if you decide to step down any of these paths, using any of these technologies or platforms. But you need to continue to keep a list of that and always reflect back and say, hey, okay, let's press pause. We're aware of this. Here's some new pros, here's some new cons. Now that we're aware, let's press pause. We're aware of this. Here's some new pros, here's some new cons. Now that we're aware, let's talk about it and reflect on it and say, hey, do we need to hit a reset or we need to do a reboot? What do we need to do here with our plans moving forward?

Brian Curee: 30:11

Because, just like this is one of the things that's been having me think lately, Olivia and Ashton, even about our business, killer Bee Digital, is we work with clients trying to help give them strategies on how to connect to people on these platforms, but then also one of the biggest complaints I've heard over the last probably decade now is we are losing connection with our audience. All the algorithms. We're sick of the algorithms and I'm like there's other options out there. If all these things changing so much, weren't we putting together a strategy and helping businesses and organizations transition to a new shift, a new mindset of social community where you actually own it and you control it? You don't have to have an algorithm anymore. You're no more algorithm. You have direct connection to them, even if those platforms go away. So those are some of the things we're stepping into this year because I see like it's important and, with the shift and changes in digital, why wouldn't we change our approach? So I think it's time to start changing that, and one of the things is we're talking about the mindset and how the control this has.

Brian Curee: 31:24

I found something I thought you might find interesting Olivia and Ashton both about now. This is particular about social media. Now, I'm saying social media because we all can relate, just like Olivia right now. I stopped using Instagram. I was like I'm not going to use Instagram for my personal, I'm going to use Facebook. Well, then I started realizing that I got a lot of junk coming in on my Facebook stuff, stuff that I just don't want to see. I didn't have that on Instagram, and then I realized a lot more people see my stories on Instagram. They're not seeing my stories on Facebook. So I'm like okay, maybe I'll use Instagram and I'll not use Facebook. So it's like this, like roller coaster, like this I mean, Ashton, I don't know, you're not on, are you on?

Ashton Curee: 32:09

any social platforms, so I was for a little while. I'm not on them as much right now, and that is specifically because I blame Google for this. That is specifically because of shorts.

Brian Curee: 32:21

That sounds really personal, I blame.

Olivia Yetman: 32:22

Google for this. Are you letting them decide what you wear?

Ashton Curee: 32:26

Ashton, wow, I was not happy because I would go on there to look for something and the app immediately opens to Shorts. It's so easy to get pulled away and to doom scroll and the other thing is is they are listening. So, because I same exact issue I had on Facebook, I would talk about something once and then walk away and not think about it anymore and all of a sudden, that's all my feed is and I'm like I don't want that. I specifically curated my feed because it's what I want to see. It's beneficial to me, it makes me productive, and then it's automatically trying to change that and this is going to be hilarious. But that's why I like Reddit.

Ashton Curee: 33:14

Reddit's the only thing I'm on now and that's exactly why. Because I can curate my exact feed. And there was another app we were just looking at a few months ago Blue Sky. Yeah, blue Sky. Is that what it was? I liked it for that, but it wasn't productive enough for me. Reddit has such a community built for everything, whether it's me working on guitars or me working on terrariums, or me working on whatever, even digital stuff. There's such a community already built there and it's so much easier for me to use that versus something like YouTube where it's automatically trying to change your feed and I can't do that.

Brian Curee: 34:01

I love that we have a Gen Z on here that's talking about I don't use it because it's not productive for me. I love hearing that because, really, to be honest, that's a thing that I think people need to become more aware of, like are these digital tools that I'm using? Are they productive for me, for my business, for me personally? Those are important things to look at and acknowledging. You're talking about right now the frustrations of losing control, not having control. This is not what you wanted to see, but you're out of control. You don't have that control. So there's things that we're looking at putting in place that we can utilize to do that, to reclaim that control, to reclaim that connection, that ownership With the people. I think the whole mindset of you know.

Brian Curee: 34:49

We've been reading this book, Ashton. You and me listened to it a little bit, but it's called the Gap and the Gain and it's talking about living. Are you living in the gap or are you living in the gain? And it's talking about living. Are you living in the gap or are you living in the gain? And it's talking about finding true happiness, like you can be. Uh, if people, if you're living in the gap, people aren't happy and kind of give you a really quick explanation of what I mean in gap and gain is you know, Olivia, you know like we set goals, like we have this idea this is where we want to be right in the business. This is our ideal, this is where we want to go. Idea this is where we want to be right in the business. This is our ideal, this is where we want to go. We have goals set. So we have a goal set right here and what's happening is we're aiming to hit that goal and sometimes you hit it, sometimes you don't.

Brian Curee: 35:30

If you don't hit it, you could sit there and say we wanted to have 30 subscribers. We only got 22. Like, why didn't we get 30? What did we do wrong? Okay, we're living in the gap. Right now, we're living in a section of saying we did not obtain our goal. Or you could actually hit your goal and still be in the gap because you're like, yeah, but we're not here yet and you're not happy of where you've been, where you've come from. That's the gain.

Brian Curee: 35:52

So he's talking about living in the gain, saying, okay, we wanted to hit 30, but we hit 22. Well, you could be living in the gap and be beating yourself up or your team about we didn't hit 30. Why? Or you could say, hey, we didn't hit our goal, but look at the gain, look how far we've come, and then you adjust and you keep moving forward. So it's a very interesting book. You should definitely check it out. But it's the same thing with social media. Social media is really good at trying to keep us in that gap. Right, you're comparing yourself to others where you want to be Always striving for more.

Brian Curee: 36:26

Yes, or striving for more, and it's like we've got to get ourselves out of those gaps. So I think becoming aware, like what you're talking about there, Ashton, is a key part. Anybody that's interested, and I do know. I don't know if you consider this a social app and Olivia, maybe you can answer this I think it's more of a messaging app. I guess it would fall into. But, marco Polo, it's not new. It's been around for a long time now. Is that social or more of like a messaging, would you say?

Olivia Yetman: 36:53

I would say more of like a messaging, just like video texting basically.

Brian Curee: 36:58

Yeah, so we I know you're on that, Ashton, and I see you using that all the time what? Yeah, I've been using it a ton now. Why Like? Why? What do you like about it?

Ashton Curee: 37:08

I honestly don't know. It's like it's just a little bit better of a connection. I feel like I guess that's actually exactly the reason is texting is fine and all and I hate, I hate calling. That's like the most Gen Z thing about me. I hate phone calling. I don't like that. But I think it's both.

Ashton Curee: 37:34

It's easier to talk to a face. We've known that for years, even just in videography, where it's like you know, you tape the little face on your camera to make it easier to talk to the camera. Same exact concept. And now you're talking to a video and I think it's just better because you can hear the tones, you can get the context almost. You know so much of talking is context where there could be quotations on something and it completely changes the meaning of a sentence. I don't know if you've ever taken a sentence and you go through each word and you add quotations to each word independently and see how it affects the sentence. It's the same exact thing of like understanding the context through tone and through. What does this word actually mean and what is the definitions of this word? Because you can sometimes see like someone being hesitant to say a certain word and then all of a sudden, you know the definition is not there. The definitions can be different in between two different people makes total sense.

Brian Curee: 38:37

I think that, yeah, I think that, for you know, it's something that we're using now, and we're using it. We've created something called the buzz line, which we're sharing things just like this, like, well, some of the things that we talk about in mindful bites. I'll just put out a little thought and it goes to everybody that's connected with it and they can video message me back and nobody else sees it. It's a really cool way to stay connected with. Again, no algorithm, no control over who's seen. Oh wow, see, I just got.

Ashton Curee: 39:02

I just gave a thumbs up by doing this by the way, for everybody listening, the app that we use to record all of this apparently reacts to you, so he's giving a thumbs up and the app is reacting. Oh, and now it's doing fireworks and now glitter is falling down. No and for context, as we're talking about context, everyone's throwing their arms up in the air because in the headsets when you do that, confetti like pop blows up behind you. Yeah, it's like a little confetti cannon. Oh, there's the fireworks again.

Brian Curee: 39:41

If you do two big thumbs up and a big goofy smile, you get fireworks. That's what I've learned today. I am ruling the fireworks. Well, I think that you know figuring out different tools that we can use. You know, I'll put a link in if people want to sign up. Again, it's free, but, uh, it's a way to stay connected and nobody else sees people's responses back to me, and I've already gotten back responses of people that are really struggling and I'm like, and you can hear it in their voice. So I'm like, wow, this is different and it's again. It's we're losing connection with some of these technologies that were meant to bring us together. I want to read a couple of things before we wrap up, just to kind of again help us be more aware of younger generations too. So this is from the University of Pittsburgh, the Brain Institute. I think they meant to spell it, brian, but I think they made a mistake. It does say Brain Institute, and there's my pager saying hey, my timer's saying you need to wrap this up.

Ashton Curee: 40:36

Your pager? I know for a fact you don't have a pager.

Brian Curee: 40:39

Gen Xer here. See Gen Xer. Okay, my timer, Olivia shaking her head. Okay, so here let me read a couple of things here. I've got two things I want to read, one from the University of Pittsburgh Brain Institute and the other one is from the Child Mind Institute. So the brain, the University of Pittsburgh Brain Institute, and the other one is from the Child Mind Institute, so the brain.

Brian Curee: 40:56

The University of Pittsburgh says this using lots of social media sites raises depression risk. So the National Survey by Pitt Center for Research on Media Technology and Health found that using multiple social media platforms is more strongly associated with depression and anxiety among young people than the total amount of time they spend on the social media. Now, this is a really interesting article. I'll share it because they do point out that what they wanted to point out was that the research there's 11 platforms had a 3.1 times the odds of reporting higher levels of depression symptoms than counterparts who use zero to two platforms.

Brian Curee: 41:45

Now, it may be that people who suffer from symptoms of depression or anxiety, or both, tend to use a broader range of social media outlets. For example, they may be searching for multiple avenues of setting, that feeling comfortable, of acceptance, which that was something that when we talked in the Metaverse about the suicide like some of the signs is he was pointing about. Some signs might be all of a sudden. This person has always been complaining. All of a sudden, one day they're just super happy and just like you know, just done like. But he's like your might, without knowing it, they might be at the end of their string and they're like tonight. I don't have to deal with this, no more. They've already made the decision that I'm exiting this world.

Ashton Curee: 42:29

He's like but let me just add one thing. Yes, let me just add one thing. If yes, let me just add one thing. If anyone wants to research that more, that is called a traumatic response. Traumatic- response. So if you're trying to find out what your own trauma response is, that's what you can search for it.

Brian Curee: 42:44

Gen Z emotional, what is it? You said you're more emotional awareness. See, if that's not true right there, like look at the stuff that he's pointing out. But one of the things they talked about was that being on multiple platforms that many can lead to depression and anxiety. But it could be them reaching out, trying to find that acceptance. Or also they said, however, it also could be them trying to maintain that presence on all these platforms. And we know it, Olivia. How many clients and people do we work with that say we've got to be on all these platforms? And we've. We know it, Olivia. How many clients and people do we work with that say we've got to be on all these platforms?

Brian Curee: 43:19

oh, more often than not yeah now with that, any business leaders that's listening? I want you to hear this next statement, Olivia. How many of them are overwhelmed and stressed?

Olivia Yetman: 43:32

100%.

Brian Curee: 43:34

Yes, I mean, we've had people break down crying because they're like I don't know how I'm going to do this, and we need to be aware of that, especially on this younger generation. So I thought that was very interesting. But the Child Mind Institute says this is using social media making your kids unhappy. Evidence is mounting up that there is a link between social media and depression. In several studies, teenage and young adult users who spend the most time on Instagram, facebook and other platforms were shown to have a substantially higher rate of reported depression than those who spent less time. Actually, from 13% to 66% we want to put it in a percentage. It says does this mean that TikTok and Instagram are actually causing depression? They said that's not really saying that these are what's causing those, but it correlates. It says the correlation seems more than coincidental is that an increase in depression occurred with the rise of smartphone use too. So it's like we've got to really like.

Brian Curee: 44:37

There's so many things that come into this play of the depression and anxiety. And the reason why I wanted to point those out and I'll put links to both these articles because I really encourage everybody to really dig into them. There's a lot of information in here, but the reason why I want to point out just those little tidbits there to be thinking about is we have the same similar problems and across the board on digital platforms, not just social media, but, like they pointed out, your cell phone. Use like that right there, like even to put your notifications off or leave your phone in another room, can really create anxiety and we have to be aware of saying wait a minute, this isn't okay, this isn't all right and it's all right to press pause and think about it and be more mindful and say what is this doing to me? Reflecting on it, the other thing to be thinking out the one I wanted to share this was because of the Metaverse is something so much more immersive.

Brian Curee: 45:32

There's people right now concerned of it going away, like certain platforms, which could happen. There are at least platforms. The Metaverse itself isn't going to go away. It's bigger than a particular platform and it's going to continue to evolve.

Brian Curee: 45:44

But we've recognized that even in there, that there's people like there was a shift when people's avatars totally changed, like when we got legs. That was one big thing, but then after that, they did a huge overhaul on the avatars to make them look a little bit more realistic and have different features and people really felt like their identity was being taken away and it's like whoa, we need to look at this because if their avatars are becoming their identity, that's a concern, that's a con and we need to talk about that because, just like in real life, we evolve, we, our bodies change, and that can be very stressful on us mentally, on our personal life, when our in real life body is changing. But that's also happening with our avatars. That's never been thought of before because that wasn't a concern, it wasn't something that was there. But we're seeing that and we have to be aware of it and then speak to it and really shed some light on what we really need to focus on. Just like we're talking about the gap and the gain, what are we really focusing on? What's really important?

Brian Curee: 46:56

So I want to encourage anybody that's stepping into any of these technologies always be aware of the pros, the cons, but also consider a pro might be a con, maybe not now, but maybe later you can turn into it, yes. So with that, I want to thank everybody for tuning in. We would love to hear your thoughts, your comments, make sure you click the link in the show notes to send us a text and don't forget, if you enjoyed the podcast, leave us a review. Those reviews help other people find the podcast and with that we hope you guys have an awesome day and, I guess, an IRL and the Metaverse. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, hit, subscribe and leave us a review.